FILIPE D’AVILLEZ
November 1, 2024 . 11:12 AM
Bashar *Batti Warda is the Chaldean archbishop of Erbil, in Iraqi Kurdistan.
Archbishop Bashar Warda, Archbishop of Erbil in Iraq© Mazur/catholicchurch.org.uk
Ten years ago he was on the frontline over helping over 13,000 families who fled the terrorists of ISIS and found refuge in Erbil — since then he has overseen the reconstruction of towns and villages, but has also watched tens of thousands of his faithful leave the country in search of stability and peace abroad.
In recent months, the archbishop has also been a prominent figure in an internal and unresolved dispute between the patriarch of the Chaldean Catholic Church, and a group of bishops which includes Warda .
Warda sat down with The Pillar at the end of a recent visit to Europe, made at the invitation of Aid to the Church in Need.
The archbishop addressed briefly the burgeoning rift in the Chaldean Catholic Church, while refusing to discuss the details. But he did speak in length about the experience of Christianity in Iraq after ISIS, of the sometimes difficult relationship with Islam, of the role Christians play in the Middle East at the moment and of his hopes for a lasting peace in the Holy Land.
This interview has been edited for length and clarity
Ten years ago, you were already the bishop of Erbil when ISIS took Mosul and then the Nineveh Plains. What was that like?
It was a terrifying moment, with a lot of confusion, especially seeing so many people arriving with nothing to find shelter in churches, shrines, schools and centers, filled with fear, anger and tears.
It was a shocking experience, not only for us as a Church, but also for them, and for the priests and the sisters who lost all of their pastoral work.
But we quickly responded, and with other bishops, and with the priests, we worked together to face that genocide, to accompany our people, to provide them with a minimally dignified living, food, shelter and education, and we were able to get past that period.
What is the situation now?
There is no persecution now.
ISIS has been defeated and Christ is victorious! This is something we are very joyful for.
But the whole of the Middle East is burning with more crises, more disputes: the Gaza war, now the south of Lebanon, more difficulties and challenges, internally displaced persons. This sense of lack of security, that the war might escalate and reach us, and the feeling of political instability is still hanging over the region.
When there is no security there is no investment, the private sector does not develop, and this leads to unemployment, which affects everybody, but being a minority, we feel all of these difficulties as a pressure on us. We have lost two thirds of the Christian presence because of all of these disputes.
In the Middle East in general, or in Iraq?
In general! Fifty years ago, we were 20% of the population of the Middle East, today we are talking about less than 4%. And when it comes to Iraq, in 2003 we were over 1 million, today we are 250,000, maybe even less.
Your archdiocese covers the capital of Iraqi Kurdistan. Less than a century ago the Kurds actively took part in massacres of Christians, but more recently Christians found safety in Kurdistan from the ISIS onslaught.
What is the situation like at the moment? Is there trust between Christians and the Kurds?
The history of Christians in the Middle East, and also in Iraq, is marked by all of this lack of trust, and there were some dark pages. When it comes specifically to the question you asked, the Kurds did commit some massacres against us. But at the moment I cannot say this is the situation.
In 2004 and 2005, when all of the sectarian strife happened in Baghdad and Mosul, and many Christians moved to the north, that was, for us, a return to our historical villages.
The Christians were welcomed and helped by the Iraqi Kurdish government, which spent hundreds of millions renovating all of these villages. The policy of the Kurdish government is to encourage more coexistence, to try and help the Christians, not just to survive but also to thrive. There is a trust which is being built and is strong, and which we need in that part of the world.
In 2003 there were some 2,000 families in Erbil, especially in the district of Ankawa. Today we are talking about 8,000 Christian families, the largest Christian gathering in the Middle East.
Those numbers show that things are different now.
In Erbil, for example, I have four schools, all of them established after 2010; a hospital – I would say one of the best — and a Catholic university, where we have Christian and Muslim students, from different nationalities. This shows us that life has changed and that these difficult pages in our history are behind us.
There has been tension between Kurdistan and the Iraqi federal government over independence and disputed territory.
How has that issue affected Christians, who live in some of these territories?
I cannot deny that there was a lack of trust and communication between Baghdad and Erbil, which resulted in more political disputes. Whenever there is a political dispute our people will suffer more, because we are a minority.
Regarding the Nineveh Plains, the southern and northern parts are Christian. This is one of the issues, among many, which is not being solved according to Article 140 of the Iraqi Constitution, concerning disputed areas. At the moment, even if the dispute is heated, there is a new atmosphere of dealing with these issues through politics, and on the ground there has been peace, and no arms were used, which is quite an achievement, because we are fully aware how many weapons there are, and God forbid they should be used stupidly, because this would affect so many people.
There are Christians who defend that there should be an independent, or at least autonomous homeland for Christians in the Middle East, possibly in the Nineveh Plains. Do you believe that could be a good idea?
Personally – and I stress this is a personal opinion – I think that before ISIS things were different. On the ground, in Nineveh alone there were around 125,000 Christians.
Today that is not the case.
I was one of the people who, at that time, said that yes, maybe we could have a more independent administration, more autonomy within federal Iraq. But today life has changed, facts on the ground have changed, and so it is not really that easy to decide. If we were to go for that project, would it benefit Christians or other parties? This is an open question. Before, things were different. Today we have maybe half of the original number. Circumstances are different and we have to reconsider according to the current situation.
Christianity in the Middle East can sometimes be more of an ethnic identity than a lived experience of faith. Is that the case in Iraq, do you feel it is changing?
One of the effects of the persecution and pressure of the past four or five decades is that the people who were most qualified, pastorally and educationally, have left the country. So many of the people who are better educated are now serving in the diaspora, and we have been left with those who, as in any community, are more concerned with their day-to-day lives.
That is why, as a Church, we are focusing on catechism and youth activities, because I believe that our strength comes from the awareness of every Christian about his Christian vocation, that is the strength of the Christians in Iraq. More catechism, and more evangelization of our community is needed.
I am on this trip to Europe at the invitation of Aid to the Church in Need, and every year they support our catechism and youth programs, and we have Radio Maria, as an instrument of education. I personally give 30 to 40 public conferences every year, focusing mainly on the Bible. And we keep publishing books, and using the media to try and evangelize, so yes, it is really an important issue, that each Christian should be aware of his or her vocation, to be a man and woman of faith, rather than just ethnicity.
Does the Church enjoy religious freedom in Iraqi Kurdistan? For example, could you accept a convert from Islam in your Church?
One of the facts that we have to be fully aware of is that once you live in the land of Islam, there is no freedom of religion, though there is a freedom of worship.
The Iraqi constitution is based on Islamic Shariah, which means that evangelization outside the Christian community is forbidden. We have 1,400 years of dialogue of life with Islam, and we know that we cannot do that. We sometimes hear reports that there is no freedom of religion in this part of the world, but where is the surprise? This is something that we know as Christians. We cannot [convert Muslims], because that would be endangering the lives of the Muslims seeking baptism, or endangering the Christian community.
If someone comes and asks about the Church, about Christianity, it is our duty to respond. But baptism? That would be the person’s choice, but they cannot do that in an Islamic country. It is simply forbidden. The world has to understand that this is the fact.
For Muslims, Judaism and Christianity are just steps on the way to Islam, because Islam is the honorable religion of God. That is why they treat us as a “People of the Book”, with some tolerance, but evangelization means that you are waging war against Islam.
In a recent conference hosted by ACN you said you have yet to hear an apology from Muslim leaders for the persecution carried out by ISIS. Is that really necessary?
An apology is needed. Not for us, but for them, for their young people, for their future generation, to tell their young people that some Muslims committed crimes against humanity in the name of God, in the name of Islam. I am always urging my brothers, the Imams, to think deeply about this, it is not an act of weakness! It is for the future Muslim generation, to prevent their young people from going in that direction, because the temptation is always there.
You mentioned that two-thirds of Christians have left Iraq. When young Christians tell you they are planning to leave, what do you say to them?
This is one of the most difficult questions we are asked. Usually this person will have reasons: no job, for example, or concern about the future of the Middle East, another war, or economic difficulty, the future of one’s family. It is very difficult… I always say that I know that migration is a right, I cannot stop that, because it is a right to try and find a dignified life wherever one wishes. But I tell them to be careful not to be smuggled, not to pay, and not to become victims of people who would use them as a means to commit crimes.
And sometimes we can help with finding a [local] job. Through our schools, our hospitals, the NGO that we have, the radio station, we have over 830 jobs. It is just a contribution, but thanks to all the donors and benefactors, the Church can really be part of the solution.
If they tell me they want to leave because everyone else is leaving, then I will encourage them to stay, but if there are other issues, I’ll say “think twice before you leave, but I cannot decide for you”.
As we know, the Chaldean Church has been embroiled in controversy over the past years. Part of that controversy appears to be a campaign against Patriarch Sako, which led to the president of Iraq revoking a decree which recognizes him as head of the Chaldean community. He has accused Rayan al-Kildani, the Christian leader of the Babylon Brigades militia, of being behind this, and there have been charges that you are close to al-Kildani. Is this true?
I am not a politician, I am a bishop, and as such my door is open to everyone.
Of course, it should be said that Rayan al-Kildani works in Baghdad, not in Erbil, politically he is completely outside of my region.
But people should know that I have welcomed, and will welcome, anyone, because the role of the Church is to be a bridge of peace and reconciliation. Throughout history, and especially recent history, the Catholic Church has played a role in really creating an atmosphere of reconciliation, and as far as I know there was no Vatican decree listing names of people the Church cannot deal with internationally or locally.
Monday, Tuesday and Wednesday the door of the office is open, people can come without appointments. They don’t need an appointment to see me. If I am there, I will see them immediately.
If a person or a group is acting in a wrong way, then I have to be able to say so. But if I shut the door, then to whom would I say it? If they did anything wrong, I have the right to say that what is happening is wrong.
The Pillar has reported on a dispute between you and the patriarch. This reached its height, at least publicly, when you refused to attend the most recent synod of Chaldean bishops, and the patriarch threatened ecclesiastical sanctions. Is that a decision that you regret?
This was an internal Church matter; it was not supposed to become public.
Disputes among brothers happen all the time.
The patriarch is the head of the Chaldean Church, he has our full respect, we pray for him and for the Pope every day, in every mass.
I would just say that these things happened in the Church and we don’t need to make a big case of it, just leave it to the Church and it will be solved.
But do you think that that dispute has damaged the image of the Chaldean Church?
I don’t think so. The Chaldean Church, with Patriarch Sako, is strong. The patriarch’s voice is loud and clear when it comes to speaking about Iraq in general, and we have to give him credit for that.
He sometimes even puts the interests of Iraq above the interests of the Christians, because his aim is to help Iraq and all Iraqis, but when it comes to Christian issues, he has also been a strong voice around the world for the protection of the persecuted and oppressed Iraqi Christians.
What is your hope for the Christian community in Iraq in another ten years?
My hope right now is that the war in Gaza and Lebanon should stop, that the violence should end, and to give time and space for a just political solution that might really last, not just something temporary.
My hope for the Christians in Iraq – and I will be working with all the bishops and Church leaders to this end – is how to make this community thrive, how to make it influential in Iraq, and to be the voice of Christ in Iraq.
Our Muslim brothers and sisters tell us that we are the salt of the earth. When we ask them if they read that in the Gospel, they say no, it is that we are truthful, honest, responsible, committed, decent, peaceful, and that we need these values, because without them no community can be sustained. We thank God that we have this mission, not just that we have these values. And when we say that we have this mission we mean that God wants us there to carry on this mission of kindness, gentleness, peacefulness, truth, honesty, and to spread them there. The goal is to be the voice of Christ.
You visited Europe at the invitation of ACN. How important are NGO such as that in supporting the Church in your diocese?
ACN were the hand of mercy, the hand of God.
I should also mention others, like the Knights of Columbus, bishops’ conferences, the Chaldeans in the diaspora, all of those, but especially ACN, because they have been working with us for so many years. Just since 2013 the reports show that they raised around $60 million for the region, not just Erbil, but in general, over the time of displacement and of the rebuilding of these villages. Without them, we would probably be telling a different story today.
https://www.pillarcatholic.com/p/warda-the-whole-middle-east-is-burning
- kaldaya.me: Matti
